Doppleganger and Avondale question

[MrDave]

The way you seem to assume that he chose to write a song about Dan before Scott simply because of the label the song was being released on or because he is just a hateful person is completely unjust and stupid. Bare in mind Doppelganger was first released on You're a Nation in 1998. By the time it was re-recorded for In Recovery in 2001 i wouldn't be surprised if the feud was already over with but the song remained a good one that they wanted to record again. Similarly i wouldn't be surprised if Avondale was written shortly after Ryan first heard Doppelganger but the first opportunity to commit to tape was in the recording sessions for Underdog. Just as View From Heaven could have been written in the weeks after Scott's death but didn't become a song ready for recording until Ocean Avenue. And even if your cynicism is somewhat justified and the band did want to wait until they were on Capitol to release a song about Scott's death, maybe it was so they could afford more time and effort to writing a truely meaningful song about a genuinely important subject rather than bashing out another pop punk number.

Maybe i'm totally wrong, maybe Ryan is a twisted, hateful arse hole. But i think you're jumping your gun a little that's all.

[sethcdavis]

greatscott=greatpoint

[sethcdavis]

said:

So Ocean Avenue isn't a "Pop-Punk album"?

muahahahahahahahahaha

all those 13 year old girls, must love hard core punk huh?

[GreatScott]

I believe the feud that sparked Avondale happened right after they toured together. That was after Scotty's passing and release of In recovery aka Closure.
If it was written shortly after doppelganger, than, one for the kids would've been a perfect spot for it. So I have to believe that it was written after the tour. Now you're probably right, I am jumping the gun, and that's because my gut really says Ryan is a shit head. I remember him on native noise show dedicated to Scott. He remarked that he knew Scott was singing his song, Cigarette to Joy. Now I'm sure that doesn't sound like much, but I took it to be pretty egotistical. So I'm not going to hide behind my opinions and put up a factual front. That's why I asked to hear another point of view.

ps The issue of what label to release the song would be Ryan's saving grace. I didn't mean it as a diss. It would be cool if view from heaven was in fact written during underdog sessions, but held off for a major release. That means getting Scott's story out to more people. So if that's not the case than yes, Ryan was more caught up in bashing Dan, than respecting a lost friend. (ooh that was harsh)

[MrDave]

sethcdavis said:

So Ocean Avenue isn't a "Pop-Punk album"?

muahahahahahahahahaha

all those 13 year old girls, must love hard core punk huh?

No you crapper. View from Heaven isn't a pop punk song. Is hard core punk the only alternative to pop punk? You stupid little man.

Great Scott=now great points You know more than me and i now stand somewhat corrected. Thanks!

[sethcdavis]

Did I say that hard core punk was the only alternative?

And your right, everyone has their opinion about the "Genre" of any given song. Yours, is sadly, wrong.

[MrDave]

sethcdavis said:

Did I say that hard core punk was the only alternative?

And your right, everyone has their opinion about the "Genre" of any given song. Yours, is sadly, wrong.

Have you heard the song in question? If you have you're completely an utterly weird.

Also i never said people should have their opinion about the "Genre" of any given song. If i said that i would have been lying. A song is either one genre or another. Or its an entirely new one. You can't have an opinion on it.

[karagetsrad]

Cheers for activity! Fight, boys, fight!

[InRecoveryARFWD]

As I recall, someone on this board had said before that "Doppelganger" wasn't written about Ryan. That big fight they had, didn't happen in 98, Ryan and Dan were in Craig's Brother together long after that.

That being said, Ryan merely took some of Dan's lyrics so there was no question about who the song was about. Dan never wrote a song about Ryan. As far as we know.




P.S. View from Heaven is country whether you want it to be or not.

[MrDave]

InRecoveryARFWD said:

As I recall, someone on this board had said before that "Doppelganger" wasn't written about Ryan. That big fight they had, didn't happen in 98, Ryan and Dan were in Craig's Brother together long after that.

That being said, Ryan merely took some of Dan's lyrics so there was no question about who the song was about. Dan never wrote a song about Ryan. As far as we know.




P.S. View from Heaven is country whether you want it to be or not.

Firstly, View From Heaven assessment...correct!

Secondly, interesting new information sir. Good work.

[Russ]

I though Dan and Ryan had tension during the CB "homecoming" tour. Then Ryan stole CB's van and crashed it or something. Either way, there's no point in arguing over something that has nothing to do with us. Especially something none of us seem to know too much about.

[GreatScott]

I never assumed Doppelganger was written about Ryan. I can't really believe Dan would even care that much to write a song about him. I'm sure Ryan may have inspired some lyrics, but mostly the song just fell together. So then really it was Ryan to make the first personal dig through song, and only dig, as Dan didn't respond in Get Rad.

And I'm not really sure what Seth was talking about. I'm pretty sure he doesn't know that MrDave knows a lot more about inspection 12 and this situation.

[InRecoveryARFWD]

GreatScott said:

I never assumed Doppelganger was written about Ryan. I can't really believe Dan would even care that much to write a song about him. I'm sure Ryan may have inspired some lyrics, but mostly the song just fell together. So then really it was Ryan to make the first personal dig through song, and only dig, as Dan didn't respond in Get Rad.

And I'm not really sure what Seth was talking about. I'm pretty sure he doesn't know that MrDave knows a lot more about inspection 12 and this situation.

Stop creepin up on my post count with this ridiculous conversation.

[I12rules]

The only problem is that "View from Heaven" is one of the worst songs I've ever heard. First of all, it's meant to be sound like a bluegrass song, but it just sounds stupid, almost like it's a joke song or something, because it just silly trying to do a song about a serious subject like someone dying with a hokey ass drum beat that's a bad attempt at bluegrass. Plus, the lyrics are nauseating. "The view from heaven beats the hell out of the the one here"? Ugghh, gross. That line sucks. Almost as bad as "If we all believe in heaven..."


So now is Ryan not only Mr. Savvy political guy that's telling people how to vote in Rolling Stone, but he's also a theologian. I don't believe in heaven and I don't care what happens to me when I die, because I can't... I'm dead. If he thinks that everyone should believe in what he does, then he truly is an egomaniac. Heaven is right up there with the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus; something that you tell kids so they're not as afraid or dying or losing their loved ones. If you believe in an afterlife along those lines, that's fine, but I'm not going to write a song saying that we should all believe in rotting in a casket six feet under ground because that wouldn't make for a very good song, whether I think it's true or not. I don't push my belief's off on other people, especially not in the context of a supposed pop song. Ryan sucks, his whiny voice sucks, and so does his songwriting. And to think that people on the Yellowcard message board are constantly saying that this is one of the best songs they've ever heard and it makes them cry to listen to it. How warped and obsessed can you possibly be to think that this crap is actually music?

[Petri]

Yeah, I agree, and I apologize if saying so offends anyone close to scott. But I heard a bit of that song for the first time the other day and considering it was written for a friend who has died, the lyrics didnt seem very insightful. Youd think a tragedy like that would bring out the best in a song writer, but apparently not, in that songs case.