1st debate

[inspectionstare]

what does everyone think?

[Petri]

George Bush enrages me to the point where i feel like assasinating him. Republicans in general are such nimwits it makes my brain throb in disgust. Bush held his own tonight, but only because he was talking about war, and it was all stuff we've heard before. anyone can talk about cops and robbers and southern justice. but just wait till they actually start talking about things that matter to the country's future. winning the war on terrorism is a) not going to happen, b) nothing to do with improving your own country. all youre doing is turning anothers into shambles which in turn makes compton look like a habitable environment.



Goooooooo Kerry

[inspectionstare]

lol, i hear you man.

the war on terrorism is honestly a joke. terrorism recruits is at an all time high. all we're doing is stirring an ant pile.

[i12matt]

Ok, the whole idea of a debate is such that no one can win. I say that because everyone who thinks their candidate won has a different opinion about why they won. For example, most Republicans are going to say that George Bush won the debate even if they didn't watch it and vice versa.

I'm a Kerry supporter and even though I think he did a better job which would merit a win, it wasn't what he said but the way he conducted himself. I thought Bush sounded like a retard and he kept stumbling over his words... several times he forgot what he was going to say and just went blank for several seconds. I kept thinking that this cannot be the leader of our country. A couple times I swear he was making up new words on the spot. Not to mention that I disagreed with pretty much everything that came out of his mouth... if 9/11 had never happened, I don't think Bush would stand a chance in this election... he became a hero by default with all the politically exaggerated patriotism that came after 9/11 which coerced people into overlooking his true shortcomings as a leader.

So my point is... a debate is merely a civil form of argument and saying that someone won or not is like saying whether someone won when two married people get in an argument. There can be no true winner as long as there is more than one opinion, however I think Bush, who is the leader of our country and should be able to do better, performed incredibly poorly in this argument and was very embarrassing to watch. I wouldn't vote for Bush even if I did agree with his policies just because he's so stupid and I think that people who vote for him are voting very irresponsibly and for all the wrong reasons. That's my 2 cents. By the way, Petri you just commited a federal offense and the Secret Service should be coming to get you soon. Good luck.

[inspectionstare]

George Bush enrages me to the point where i feel like assasinating him.

oh,,,, and i'd be careful with saying stuff like that. with the patriot act, the federal government can do whatever the fuck they want. i live in utah and there was a story on the news recently about a 17 year kid who put some anti bush stuff on his car and the cia or fbi (i can't remember) seriously stormed his job, cuffed him, and told him that that was terrorism. personal freedom is officially gone. thanks W.

[CypressDrummer]

Wow, I can't believe I'm writing on this (for I will probably be publicly lynched for this) but here goes.

I am Ryan, and I am a Republican. I didn't watch the debate last night, so I have no opinion on how George Bush did or how John Kerry did (although I imagine Bush was not the most eloquent of orators). What I did hear from people at Flagler College (this is from Democrats, mind you) is that Kerry's main stance was about his past in the Vietnam War and about his purple hearts, whereas Bush's main stance was on the past and 9/11.

Was there any talk of future issues or policies? Even though I am a Republican, I can take things from John Kerry's platform that I like and wish Bush would adopt (most importantly, NOT making homosexual marriage a constitutional issue, but I won't get into that) I like some of the things that Kerry is proposing, but the bottom line is, I'm in college. Therefore I am broke. I'm and English major and will be a writer/journalist. Therefore I am broke for a long time coming. I can deal with Bush as long as I don't have to put all kinds of my own money into outdated social welfare programs and nationalized health care.

Also, I really don't like the fact that Kerry voted against a measure to further fund the troops in Iraq once they got there.

But, I think there's one thing we can ALL agree on. I think both Democrats and Republicans alike wish they had a better spokesman for their party.

I am going to catch a lot of flack for this post.

P.S. Shouldn't this topic be under "Other Stuff"?

[skinnydude99]

I read an article the other day saying that Republicans and Democrats spend so much time arguing that it's actually working against the country. Standing up for your convictions is good but everything is a compromise and, in reality, nothing will get accomplished if everyone stays in there corner....if that makes sense.

[i12matt]

CypressDrummer said:

P.S. Shouldn't this topic be under "Other Stuff"?

Fuck it.... this is the most action this message board has seen in years.

[inspectionstare]

P.S. Shouldn't this topic be under "Other Stuff"?

i would have put it in other stuff, but i know i never check that board, so i'm assuming that no one else does either.

[i12dude14]

Ok,time to have my say.

I know oh im just 14 and all but i dont support either of them because i have some family over in Iraq now and I know and most everybody knows that nobody should be over there.This is getting to the point where there is no more war on terrorism,its a war on Iraq who did nothing to us.The 1 George Bush didn't finish the job over there,so this Bush probably decided to do it.Even Kerry won't pull the troops out since he also wants to win.I don't see what we are trying to prove except that we are a wealthy country and we are strong.All Bush is doing is proving his stubbornness and its making the country and the world mad.Dan or Tim or Matt or anybody else would probably make a better President cuz they actually use some common sense and listen to what other people have to say.Ok that's my bit.

[CypressDrummer]

ok, i've got a question for everybody.

what makes Kerry a good candidate for president?

i would like to have Kerry in office, but the fact is, in America, we work for our money. and to see it go down to hole for nationalized health care (just ask Britain, it sucks) and welfare programs that SUCK is just not on my wish list. i also don't care much for the fact that the greater amount of us will have highly raised taxes with him in office that will go towards above-mentioned programs.

p.s. if you answer my question of "what makes Kerry a good candidate for president?" with "he is anyone other than George Bush", you're doing your party no better than the dozens of people i've talked to already.

p.s.s. hey petri, why do you think we're all nimwits? i admit, i've talked to some pretty racist, trashy Republicans that are too conservative and live in trailors and have mullets (even though a mullet would be good). but to make such a generalized statement about us...that's just not very accurate.

Jimmy Buffet for President...

[FlowersFromIdaho]

I didn't watch the debate. I don't like either candidate. I'm voting Libertarian.

We should all vote Libertarian and buck this stupid two-party system.

Also, voting for Kerry just because he's not Bush is the worst thing you can do for this country. Find out what your candidate stands for, and find out what he will do when he gets into office. He may be worse than Bush, and it will be no one's fault but your own.

There's nothing wrong with Republicans, only the far-right nutjobs. There's nothing wrong with Democrats, just the far-left nutjobs. There's some in every party, to judge the whole of the party based on a few of the most outspoken whackjobs is pretty dumb.

[clicheguevara]

First off I hate Bush so I am biased, obviously. Here goes for some reasons for Kerry.

First off Kerry isn't GREAT, but he at least would help restore our country to what it once was. Having gone to Europe this summer to study, I have learned a great deal about peoples views of our country. Granted we don't have to be loved by everyone but when you isolate yourself like we have, there will be serious issues to come about later on when we need their help or so on. So with Kerry in office you give it a 'clean slate' and maybe get back to having friends instead of enemies. We need to be respected again.

Another point, our economy is in the shitter. Bush is so war/terrorism happy that he ignores issues here in our country. We want to stop the WMD, oops nothing there so we are just liberating the Iraqi's oops they hate us because we fuckin killed 100's of innocent lives and are now just sitting there getting bombed and shot at everyday. I have a buddy, who is a marine, over there and he says it was the worst experience of his life. Bush uses 9/11 to keep the American public thinking that we are in constant danger of attack and that we need a strong leader to help protect us. Well ya know what he isn't going to stop a terrorist attack, John Kerry isn't going to stop terrorists either. No one can stop it so that whole point of stopping terrorism is just plain stupid. That kind of was 2 points merged into 1 but hey.

The environment. Bush has stated that global warming and basically anything environmentally related is not on his agenda. Seeing that C02 levels are on the rise, and we back out of the Kyoto Treaty and basically any protected land is up for grabs now Bush could go down as one of the worst environmentally unsound president ever. How can you ignore global warming? It is a fuckin serious issue. For example living in FL maybe people noticed some affects of this, IE 4 hurricanes. Kerry last night in the debate at least brought up environment and global warming, while Bush can't even say environment.

Those are just a few points that I would bring up but political debate isnt really for the internet. Too much time to type all of that out.

[i12matt]

Ok this post is going to be kind of long... it is a chart I found that tells Bush's stance on important issues.... if these are wrong in any way, then I take back what I say, but I'm pretty sure that this is accurate.
General Information:
Party Republican
Has Held Elected Office Yes
Served in the Military Yes
Issues-
Abortion:
Appoint Judges Who Will Outlaw Abortions---Strongly Favor
Outlaw "Partial Birth" Abortions--- Strongly Favor
Outlaw Abortions Except for Rape/Incest--- Strongly Favor
Parental Notification for Minors Under 18--- Strongly Favor
Gay Rights:
Constitutional Gay Marriage Ban--- Strongly Favor
Equal Rights for Civil Unions--- Somewhat Opposes
Allow Gays to Openly Serve in the Military--- Strongly Opposes
Religion in Government:
Organized Prayer in Public Schools--- Strongly Favor
Commandments Displayed in Federal Buildings--- Strongly Favor
Federal Funding of Religious Charities--- Strongly Favor
Gun Control:
Safety Devices on All New Guns--- Strongly Opposes
Background Checks on Gun Show Purchases--- Somewhat Opposes
Require Safety Course, License Before Gun Purchase--- Strongly Opposes
Allow Lawsuits Against Gun Manufacturers--- Strongly Opposes
Death Penalty:
Abolish the Death Penalty--- Strongly Opposes
National Review of Death Penalty Fairness--- Strongly Opposes
Education:
No Child Left Behind Act--- Strongly Favor
Vouchers for Public, Private or Religious Schools--- Strongly Favor
Increase Federal Funding for Higher Education--- Somewhat Opposes
Homeland Security:
The Patriot Act--- Strongly Favor
Tighter Immigration Controls--- Strongly Favor
Iraq
The War in Iraq--- Strongly Favor
Turning Over More Political Authority to U.N. --- Strongly Opposes
Immediate Withdrawal of U.S. Troops --- Strongly Opposes
Foreign Trade:
Embargo on Cuba--- Strongly Favor
U.S. Involvement in NAFTA--- Strongly Favor
Mandatory Labor/Environment Standards in Trade Agreements--- Strongly Opposes
Health Care
Universal Government-Supervised Health Care--- Strongly Opposes
Medicare Prescription Drugs Coverage By Private Insurers--- Strongly Favor
Expand Medicaid to Cover More Uninsured Americans--- No Opinion
Limit Malpractice Suits Against Doctors, Insurers--- Strongly Favor
Welfare Reform:
Hiring Welfare Workers Tax Incentive--- Somewhat Opposes
Welfare Benefits for Legal Immigrants--- Somewhat Opposes
Child Care Services for Getting Off Welfare--- Somewhat Opposes
Social Security:
Raise Retirement Age--- No Opinion
Privatize Social Security--- Strongly Favor
Cap Payments to Wealthy --- Strongly Opposes
Tax Cuts
Roll Back the Bush Administration Tax Cuts--- Strongly Opposes
Roll Back Cuts for People Making Over $100,000--- Strongly Opposes
Additional Tax Cuts for Businesses--- Strongly Favor
Jobs
Raise the Minimum Wage--- Strongly Opposes
Extend Unemployment Benefits--- Strongly Opposes
Environment:
Oil Drilling in the Arctic Wildlife Refuge--- Strongly Favor
Mandatory Clean Air Emissions Standards --- Somewhat Opposes
Tougher Fuel Efficiency Standards--- Strongly Opposes


Now, again sorry that was long but I think that about covers why I'm not voting for Bush. I disagree with just about every single thing he stands for. My big thing is that no President should ever be outwardly religious unless every single person in this country believes in God which they don't. He should keep that to himself. And his stances on abortion and gun control are just more of the same Republican bullshit. No man should be able to tell a woman what she can and can't do with a pregnancy until he's been through that himself, which is scientifically impossible. I also think gays should be able to fight if they want to... I'm sure as hell not going to fight someone's greedy oil war and if gay people want to that's fine by me. And let them get married too so they can be just as miserable as everyone else.

What is this Republican obsession with guns too? Is it NRA pressure? Bush opposes background checks on gun show purchases??? Great so now any ex-convict can kill me without getting harassed as he buys an AK-47 which shouldn't be legal anyways except that he failed to help get the assault weapons ban renewed. Gun people are fucking idiots and I think guns should be outlawed. If anyone's interested I can post the chart on where Kerry stands and you can compare the two. Bush could care less about poor and middle class people because he's never been that... he was raised in a filthy rich family where he could get away with not reporting for military duty. Sure Kerry's rich NOW, but only by marriage. And to CypressDrummer, I don't have a problem with people who are Republicans.... just the ones who hold elected office.

[CypressDrummer]

Matt, that's really cool to see...I like the chart, but I'd like to see the sources and times in which he said/voted/felt those ways. (Not to dismiss them, I'd just like to see it.)

Also, Matt, (and a few others on this board) I respect you guys a lot now. It is one of the first times I haven't gotten a rant or rave about being anti-Bush as the only reason someone is voting for Kerry. This thread has gotten good.

And I agree that a president who is of faith shouldn't make decisions and justify them because he is a Christian. I'm a Christian, but the fact remains, his job is to do what's best for the country. He can be a Christian and make decisions. But since Christianity is so diverse when it comes to different denominations, he can't really relate to most of the American citizens when it comes to the BIG decisions (a.k.a. Homosexual marriage, abortions, etc...)

As president, he shouldn't be mixing the church and state. (I wish Republicans had a different candidate to vote for)

P.S. Not all elected Republicans are how you think, Matt. I'm pretty sure in a couple years all the old, white guys will be cycled out and we'll have some of the next generation in office. Hopefully the younger guys will lean more towards the middle.